|
|
Post by Agan on Feb 15, 2009 9:04:02 GMT
At any given time in the history of Numenor, since the times of Tar-Aldarion, there was always a Man who-should-have-been-the rightful King.  That holds true for any kingdom. True, but you forget " Ten thousand years would not suffice" Numenoreans had long memories. There was probably a lot of jockeying for position to get Ancalime on the throne. Look at what happened when Elizabeth I was dying. That holds true for any kingdom. What gets done about it is very much a factor of the character of the current pretender. How long did it take for Aragorn to show up? Numenoreans had a strong craving for preserving order. Telling an ambitious prince that nice Numenoreans don't fight their way to the throne plays right into Sauron's hands. You are right, of course. But the character of the pretender is not as important as the current situation. Aragorn had probed Gondor as Thorongil, but saw no chances to declare himself King without civil war, and dropped the matter - for a while. Now take this poor Malantur back in 892, when the Law was changed. The drawing of the Line of Elros gives us roughly the composition of the Council of Numenor that had approved the New Law. The princes of the Line of Elros were not that numerous at the time, likely all were on the Council. There were Tar-Aldarion, of course, and his father ex-king Tar Meneldur - both of whom naturally promoting Ancalime. There was the line of Andunie: Silmarien herself with her husband Ellatan and son Valandil. This line had just lost the Throne under the Old Law and, of course, saw its change with glee. Perhaps they even hoped that one day the new Law would be applied retroactively. There were male descendants of the younger sons of the previous Kings: descendants of Manwendil, Atanalcar, Aulendil, Ardamir and Cemendur. All those guys had no hope at all to become Kings under the Old Law: One royal line may have died out in Numenor, but to hope that two or three would do the same was just foolish. Instead, under the new Law, they could now marry their sons to the Ruling Queens and have their grandsons as Kings. It was exactly what Hallatan of Hyarastorni, Cemendur's son, had achieved. Under the Old Law what hope would this youngest line have? Under the New Law, Cemendur's great-grandson became King Tar-Anarion. And against this highly interested clique, there stood only the very old Caliondo and his son Malantur... It was simply hopeless. |
|
|
|
Post by khazarkhum on Feb 16, 2009 8:05:07 GMT
I wouldn't call the chance of a line dying out "hopeless", not when you live 300+ years. How far out of the loop was Victoria when she was crowned? Henri IV, the first Bourbon ruler of France, was also a longshot for the throne. So they might have nursed the same hopes everyone in line for a throne has.
|
|
|
|
Post by Agan on Feb 16, 2009 8:58:25 GMT
Not really. Numenor was not like Europe - not even close. Henry IV came to the throne only because there was a long line of assasinations / accidents / ilnesses that happened to his predecessors, the brood of Cathrine de Medici and Henry II. Henry II was killed by a lance at a tournament at 40. He had ten(!) children, including several sons. One died in infancy, another (Francis II) died at 16, from ear infection or poison, the third (Charles XI) died at 23 of tuberculosis (or poison again?). The next one (Henry III) was homosexual and unable to produce a child. He died stabbed in the abdomen by a monk at 38. The last brother Francis of Anjou died at 29 of malaria. Their successor was the famous Henry IV who later got knifed in the street and died. Can you imagine something like that happenning in Numenor? ;D  The life was quite safe there: no illnesses, no assasinations, even no accidents, it seems. Not a single premature death is recorded in the line of Elros for 3000 years! Paradise on earth. Even dying without male issue was most uncommon: it only happened to Aldarion because he quarelled with his wife. Had he not, we would have certainly got a male heir or two. All the Kings without exception were married, though women sometimes remained unwed (Telperien). But then she had a nephew, so never mind... |
|
|
|
Post by khazarkhum on Feb 16, 2009 23:20:16 GMT
Where does it say there were no gay Numenoreans, that no one drowned or was killed doing something foolish, etc? All were real possibilities. Malantur would only see things as hopeless if nothing ever went wrong. And we all know better than to think that nothing ever went wrong.
As far as we know nothing ever went wrong--but then we have Isilmo passed over and his son made king. Obviously things could & did happen.
|
|
|
|
Post by Agan on Feb 26, 2009 20:49:59 GMT
I have just found this note (no 23) in "Aldarion and Erendis":
In a note on the "Council of the Sceptre" at this time in the history of Númenor it is said that this Council had no powers to govern the King save by advice; and no such powers had yet been desired or dreamed of as needful. The Council was composed of members from each of the divisions of Númenor; but the King's Heir when proclaimed was also a member, so that he might learn of the government of the land, and others also the King might summon, or ask to be chosen, if they had special knowledge of matters at any time in debate. At this time there were only two members of the Council (other than Aldarion) who were of the Line of Elros: Valandil of Andúnië for the Andustar, and Hallatan of Hyarastorni for the Mittalmar; but they owed their place not to their descent or their wealth, but to the esteem and love in which they were held in their countries. (In the Akallabêth (p. 268) it is said that "the Lord of Andúnië was ever among the chief councillors of the Sceptre.")
So poor old Caliondo and Malantur were not even on the Council!
Instead, there were the guys of Andunie and Hallatan who was promised Ancalime as a bride for his son.
Grr... that was VERY easy.
|
|
|
|
Post by khazarkhum on Feb 26, 2009 21:13:20 GMT
Perhaps they were called for "special" meetings.
Or not.
|
|
